Justin Posey's Poem: Round the bend, past the Hole...
Beyond the Map's Edge Treasure Hunt
Welcome! I’m glad you’re joining the adventures! Each week I share lots of information about many different treasure hunts.
I dedicate Mondays to Beyond the Map’s Edge (with any breaking news on hunts). But a lot has been happening - so let’s get right to it!
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X (Deep Matters of the State) Q/A with Justin
In Friday’s recap I shared the top 10 highlights of the Q/A with Justin. But there’s still a lot to unpack. It takes time to process it all - to think about it correctly - without making wrong assumptions.
Today I want to highlight the ‘Questions’ Justin has said are good ones to ask. I’ll go into more in coming newsletters. But we know we first have to ask the right questions - to find the right answers. So, let’s start there.
The Right Questions to Ask
In the Q/A Justin encouraged us to think more about certain questions being asked and the answers to them.
1)AI vs Human
Q: You said that you wrote the poem specifically so that AI couldn't solve it, but humans can. In what ways is the poem written to be interpreted by humans and not AI? Like should we be looking for more metaphorically speaking instead of more literally?
A: It's a good question, and I think it's probably the right question to be asking. The way I see it is creating a puzzle for an intellect that dwarfs our own is a paradox. So whether or not I've succeeded in my task is TBD, but time will tell. But at its core, I really wanted to design something that embraces the core of what it means to be human. And there was an astronomical amount of thought that I put into that aspect of designing the treasure hunt. I don't think it's a good idea for me to divulge the tactics that I used because I think that that gives away too much. And in some ways can actually fuel the ability for AI to progress. So I'll have to punt on that.
Notes: One thing that struck me is how Justin says he put in ‘an astronomical amount of thought into this but says he wrote the poem within maybe 4-6 hours - It would seem that didn’t include all the previous forethought. :)
Ways AI could be limited?
Metaphors or clever play and creative use of words in the poem
Multi layered or connective steps
Discovering a location by drawing a map - based on clues in poem
Actions needed or understanding clues found by looking at maps or BOTG
? - share in comments other ways you may think (or the MW Discord)
2)Distance / How far
Q: At the Dillon Q&A, someone asked the wrong question. Are you willing to answer the right question and provide the distance from the first actionable clue to the treasure?
A: Oh, wow, that's an insightful question. I think it's probably the best use of time for someone to formulate the right question to ask. And I think just by virtue of going through the process of formulating that question, you might find the answer.
This seems to connect to:
Q: At any point in the poem, if you're following the poem path, do you ever return to previously trodden ground?
A: Oh, that's a great question. That's such a fun question. If you knew the, huh, how do I put it. If you knew the entirety of the solution, then the answer is no. But if you go through, kind of the natural progression of the treasure hunt, the answer is more like a yes.
And then this (rephrased) Question/Answer:
Q: How is the poem created to be - linear, numerous geographic locations miles apart, hybrid, etc.?
Justin only wanted to say it is part of the mystery and puzzle. But went on to say, ‘I think there are some great movies out there to watch - Indiana Jones and National Treasure.’
Notes: It would seem the poem clues, while consecutive, are not from point to point in a straight line to the treasure - like how Forrest Fenn’s was solved.
There could be a celestial aspect, X on map drawn, or clues all converge on the same location - for examples.
3)Checkpoint
Q: Is the checkpoint required or is there certain information you would discover at the checkpoint that would help you to the final solve?
A: The checkpoint is a natural part of the treasure journey. You will come across the checkpoint as you search for the treasure. There is a chance you could bypass it, but boy the odds are astronomically low. I don’t see that happening pragmatically speaking.
Notes: This is only my opinion - and I could change my mind the minute I post this - but because I lean to the double arcs being the checkpoint - and Justin feels too much emphasis is put on trying to figure out what they might be - he is also saying too much emphasis is put on finding the checkpoint.
The checkpoint may only be found by an action once on location. It cannot be found without going BOTG. It’s part of the journey. Follow the clues, and the checkpoint will be found.
X Post by Justin
Before going into Stanza 2- ICYMI - Justin posted on X the following:
Why release this? He mentioned in the X interview that ‘at least half of the second stanza has been solved’ already.
BUT notice the difference: he used the word HALF in the interview - not PART.
There is a difference between the two words. Is his X post a clarification to his answer in the Q/A. Maybe he is only aware of PART being solved (word, phrase, line - not sentence) Half would be a sentence.
The ‘At least’ leaves it open that more could be solved, but he just isn’t aware of it and so can’t say that. This leads to the question:
Do searchers know they solved the first two (or more) clues?
Do searchers who have solved clues ‘know it’ without a doubt?
I would assume not. Justin has NOT announced the checkpoint has been found, and that is the point when someone knows - without doubt - they are tracking in the right direction.
One thing to remember is Forrest Fenn said for years his first two clues were solved. He also said you wouldn’t know it without doubt unless you found the treasure.
Justin’s hunt is of course different in that manner - but not until you find the checkpoint.
Justin saying Stanza 1, and AT LEAST part of stanza 2, is solved - is hopeful for those who sent their solutions to him, yet possibly discouraging for searchers who don’t feel they have solved the poem that far.
However, remember….
This is still anyone’s game (or treasure)!
Poem: Second Stanza
In the previous newsletter I shared thoughts on Stanza 1 (sentence 1 and 2) and the first half of Stanza 2. Let’s take a look at the second half.
Round the bend, past the Hole,
I wait for you to cast your pole.
Facts known about the 4th line:
Justin answered (after he thought) “Yes. I think that's fair” to the question: “Is it walking distance from "waters' silent flight" to "round the bend and then past the hole?"
Round the bend, past the Hole,
Thoughts/Ideas on word meanings:
Round the bend
simplest meaning – past a curve somewhere
is ‘Round’ the name of a bend? (or area of a curve, etc)
Bend Oregon (should be capped though)
Around the bend used in Tucker’s Poem - page 213: “Tucker, once my earthly friend, took half my soul around the bend.”
Rounded the bend is on page 149: “Tucker and Jennie rounded the bend.”
Page 177: “Rounding the bend, we spotted another group of anglers across the water…”
past the Hole
Big Hole River
Hole in the Wall
Nine Mile Hole (FF’s Treasure location)
Other ‘Hole’ in name for a geographic location
Fishing Hole
past Montana – MT (sound clue) – empty (a hole is empty)
SIDE NOTE: HOLE is the 42nd word
Hole is the 42nd word in the poem. I think it’s becoming clear 42 is a clue. Why or how though? It is given in Netflix, the book, and with the H being capped in Hole and being the 42nd word - it could also be highlighted in the poem.
I think it’s an interesting exercise to understand ways Justin might give clues - to understand how he may give others.
One way 42 is given in the book - that I haven’t seen talked about - is in the story: THE BRONZE BEAST.
There are allusions to the famous quote: 42 is the answer to the ultimate question of life, universe and everything - of the Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
In the X Q/A, when asked about the 42 on his taillight Justin said he didn’t want to comment too much other than to say, “The Hitchhiker’ Guide to the Galaxy’ is a fantastic book.” - so we know this could be something.
And in the story - The Bronze Beast - he uses multiple sentences that allude to it. A few are:
“…where he might, say, quietly contemplate the meaning of life…”
“…suggested he was trying to decode the secrets of the universe.”
“… I tried everything…”
“…who’d just solved the world’s greatest mystery…”
“…and I could ponder life’s big questions.”
What’s interesting is that this story about Tucker is when Justin lives in Washington - and takes Tucker on walks around Novelty Hill.
Now I’m not saying it hints to the treasure being in Washington - although it could. What I think is Washington is the 42nd state - and so it’s another clue to 42.
Or maybe the Hole - answer is - Washington. I don’t know.
Whatever is going on - I think Justin was hinting to 42 in this story - via the sentences and the story taking place in Washington state (the 42nd).
I wait for you to cast your pole.
Fishing spot
referring to North Pole
referring to casting a shadow with a pole
Hinting towards need for an Azimuth
Action needed. Is it possible this is one location to mark on a map - and then used to make an X/3 points/?.
Who is I?
Justin
Treasure
Location
Bride - or other character in poem
Heron Lake is I (story of lost pole in book)
To Be Continued….
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~ Jenny / Mysterious Writings - X marks the place to find treasures!
